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June 19, 2019, 10:07:19 pm

Author Topic: Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration  (Read 433 times)

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Offline audiomaniac

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Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration
« on: August 20, 2018, 07:20:35 pm »
I've been enjoying my Reduction + Integration for a while now with a MM cartridge. I'm thinking about trying a low to medium output MC cartridge and was wondering if there is anything I should look out for in matching a SUT with my phono preamp. Anybody else tried this? Thanks!
John
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Crack, Reduction + Integration

Offline Adrian

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Re: Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2018, 11:20:12 pm »
I like my Rothwell MCL (w/ Ortofon Quintet Black through an Eros).

However, I'm sure there are others on this forum that can tell you how to build one, if that's what you're looking for.
Adrian C.

VPI Prime w/Ortofon Quintet Black MC/Rothwell MCL Lundahl SUT/EROS/Submissive (3 output mod)/Mainline/Crack - Speedball/S.E.X. 2.1 - C4S/S.E.X. 3.0 - C4S/Paramounts - Blumenstein 2.2 Mini-Max w/DOF mod -Senn HD600/Viso HP50/Focal Elear.

Offline Paul Birkeland

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Re: Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2018, 04:11:33 am »
was wondering if there is anything I should look out for in matching a SUT with my phono preamp.
The SUT needs to be matched to the cartridge and not really the phono preamp. 
Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man

Offline Doc B.

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Re: Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2018, 05:39:43 am »
PB is right, and that includes making sure the nominal output of the cartridge gets stepped up to at least 3mV and preferably more like 5mV. So a .3mV LOMC needs at least 1:10 stepup ratio,  a .15mV cart would need at least a 1:20 ratio, etc.
Dan "Doc B." Schmalle
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Bottlehead Corp.

Offline Paul Birkeland

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Re: Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2018, 06:00:02 am »
Some good reading and practical examples of what goes with what can be found here:

http://www.sowter.co.uk/phono-cartridge-transformers.php

For a large majority of cartridges, the Sowter 1990 is going to be an easy choice. 
Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man

Offline audiomaniac

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Re: Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2018, 07:24:50 am »
Thanks all, I appreciate the information. I have considered stepping up ;) to the Eros. I was wondering more about how the Reduction "plays" with a step up, i.e. any issues with hum or other anomalies others may have experienced. I guess it depends more on the sum of the parts.
John
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Crack, Reduction + Integration

Offline Paul Birkeland

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Re: Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2018, 07:29:35 am »
Hum will depend on the SUT and what sources of magnetic radiation you have in the room.  If you currently have a 5mV cartridge and you get a 250mV MC cartridge and a 1:20 SUT, then the contribution of the Reduction to the noisefloor will be roughly identical and output voltage from the Reduction will be similar between both setups.
Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man

Offline adeep42

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Re: Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2018, 08:21:01 am »
Just a note. I use a SUT between my MC cartridge and an Eros. Works perfectly, no hum.
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VPI Prime
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Bob's Devices VPI SUT
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Cambridge 752BD
Apple Airport Express
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Offline audiomaniac

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Re: Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2018, 09:28:22 am »
OK, so here's a question. I have a nice Garrott Optim FGS cartridge that I've enjoyed for years but I have the fever and want to move to a MC cartridge. Would it make more sense to build an Eros now with the ability to use my current cartidge and a HO MC cartridge down the road or invest in a SUT and a moderately priced MC cartridge now a stay with the Reduction?  ::)
John
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Crack, Reduction + Integration

Offline Paul Birkeland

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Re: Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2018, 12:42:51 pm »
The Eros will pair far, far better with your current cartridge than the Reduction does.  I'd run that cartridge till the cantilever falls off!
Paul "PB" Birkeland

Bottlehead Grunt & The Repro Man

Offline audiomaniac

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Re: Using a SUT with a Reduction + Integration
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2018, 01:15:33 pm »
The Eros will pair far, far better with your current cartridge than the Reduction does.  I'd run that cartridge till the cantilever falls off!

Yeah, I know. Hard to beat that Garrott. I sure wouldn't mind building the Eros. Bottlehead kits are great!
John
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Crack, Reduction + Integration